G.I. Joe Q & A Answers are now coming in

It must be Friday afternoon, and the poor guys with Hasbro’s PR agency are now shipping out the answers to our burning G.I. Joe questions…  here are GeneralsJoes two answered questions:

Q:  The fandom seems pretty excited about the upcoming G.I. Joe: Renegades animated series, however it’s curious that the cartoon is starting this fall, with the toys not coming until the fall of 2011.  Why is there this large gap, and what challenges does it provide producing a toyline based on an animated series nearly 10 months after it airs?

A: The timeframes for producing an animated series and a complete toy line are very different.  In order for the Hasbro Design team to produce figures with accurate likenesses the character art and color palette needs to be final.

Q: Speaking of G.I. Joe: Renegades, with the series debuting in October, when can the public expect to start seeing some animated models or video?  Is it possible we’ll see something at SDCC?

A: It is too early to comment on this but we hope to see you at SDCC!

By the way, make sure you keep visiting GeneralsJoes Q & A Page with links to all other site responses!

  • Jay

    Okay… I don’t say it too often, but Hasbro are IDIOTS.

    This extremely lengthy gap between the TV show airing and the toyline being released hurt Transformers: Animated very badly (the toys didn’t start coming out until halfway into the SECOND SEASON), and now Hasbro is repeating the mistake with Renegades.
    Ugh.

  • Barbecue17

    What animated tv series based on a toy line doesn’t launch the toy line at the same time? As more companies are trying to connect with their collector base, it seems that Hasbro is distancing themselves. I love the POC stuff and Renegades so far, so not hatred for the merch., just sensing that perhaps Hasbro doesn’t feel that fans supported ROC like they hoped?

  • http://lbamtoyreview.blogspot.com LBAM

    Sigh. Here’s hoping that Steel Brigade and Crazylegs and the like (ruled out of PoC by Hisstank’s questions) will make it out there somehow.

  • Yojoeski

    Hasbro has no faith in the Gi Joe brand any more. This was completely proven by the lack of new product at the Con as well as actually promoting their competition at it as well. Mark my words Renegades, no matter how good, will be pulled as soon as the Hub gets off the ground. I imagine the classic show will be pulled as well soon after. Gi Joe according to Hasbro is pretty much dead in the water and I don’t blame ROC for it at all, I blame Hasbro for pricing the line into the ground.

  • http://gijoe.andybartlett.com Andy

    Man, we’re never satisfied. “Rise of Cobra sucked – it killed G.I. Joe.” So Hasbro put G.I. Joe on hiatus for a few months to, I assume, put a sizeable-enough gap between “Rise” and “Pursuit” to create an opportunity for “Pursuit” to stand on its own without “Rise” pegwarmers affecting distribution.

    “What G.I. Joe needs is an ongoing cartoon to help sell the toys to kids.” Done. But the timing is wrong?

    I admit, I also thought JoeCon was light on vehicles; I was hoping to see *something* new there for 2011, and all we saw were mech repaints. Based on how many figures Hasbro has included in “waves” since 25th anniversary, I think we saw maybe half of the early 2011 figures at JoeCon. Recall how they announced new product last year; some at ComiCon, more at JoeCon. This year, JoeCon was first; I would expect more new things for 2011 at ComiCon.

    We’re still getting the Pursuit figures (which are awesome); we’re getting the Pursuit vehicles (don’t lie and say you’re not totally jacked about the new VAMP and HISS Tank); we’re getting a brand-new animated series (26 episodes confirmed; there were only 95 in the old-school cartoon, so we’re already a quarter of the way there before this has even aired); we’re getting a toy line to support that series; and IDW is producing, what, four ongoing comic book titles? I’ve got to think IDW is planning a Renegades tie-in line as well.

    Long story short, I don’t possibly see how this equates to “no faith in the brand.” If that were true, I would think Hasbro would’ve just axed the whole thing. They’re still going to be spending millions of dollars to deliver G.I. Joe content through at least the end of 2011 and, if the rumors of “G.I. Joe 2″ hitting in 2012, through then as well.

    If nothing else, we’re looking at “in two years, we could have everything we’ve ever wanted as G.I. Joe collectors – an ongoing cartoon, an accompanying toy line, monthly comic books, a feature film and a film toy line to support *that*.”

    Instead, the sky is falling? I don’t see it. The brand is far from “dead.” Is it where we wish it to be? No, and it never will be, unless the second movie somehow does $400 million domestic. But it’s hardly dead, and there’s *great* stuff coming.

  • Hawkwinter

    Interesting, 4 posts that actually sound like I could of written them and then…Shore Patrol returns….lol.

    So I’ll get straight to the point. Hasbro has lost confidence because they do not back anything up. RoC didn’t sell as well as they thought it would or should. So they end the line. We all know the real reasons it bombed was the fact that the price was far too high and every wave they sent out had wave 1 figures overwhelming everything, meaning that’s all we see on the pegs. Even I started liking the figures at the end, and I hated the movie. But I couldn’t find anything but Dukes, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadows, Baronesses, Ripcords and Neo-Vipers from the first waves.

    So then they delay and bring us Pursuit of Cobra. Change heads, cut threads with RoC (sort of) and give us an awesome toyline, I mean really awesome. Oh, but they have also cancelled it before they were even able to gauge fan reaction (which was stellar). ….yes, saying there will be only 4 waves and then another line will be introduced is basically the same as cancelling it. Now when I go pick up wave 1 I already know the line is dead before I hold the first figure in my hands. That unfortunately has put a very bitter twist on this cool new line.

    RoC was a GIJoe re-launch. The origin was re-invented. So was the new IDW comic. So is the upcoming Renegades. Where’s the confidence? They seem to just be trying new ideas until something clicks. But they are starting to switch things up so quickly that there is no chance for an idea to catch on. Pursuit of Cobra will sell well, I have no doubts. Maybe Hasbro will add on an extra wave after it sees just how well it does. But Renegades is already planned so PoCs days are numbered.

    Same issue that happened to Resolute. Response was terrific with fans, and we wanted toys. Hasbro’s reaction? Wha? You guys actually liked that? Huh…well, we’re on to RoC now and we KNOW you’ll love that. Well, no, but that’s how Hasbro operates.

    Right now it seems to me they are scrambling. RoC didn’t meet THEIR expectations and now they have to figure out what to do. So they distanced PoC from RoC to try and get part of the core fanbase back (which I have to admit is working, I’ve already pre-ordered several cases of the stuff…where as I think I’ve spent around $120 on the entire RoC line). They remembered we all went nuts about the Resolute cartoon, so they are throwing together a quick cartoon. And yeah, it’s quick, that’s why there is such a delay with the toyline (though a whole year seems ridiculous). Even IDW has brought back the original Marvel run with Hama at the helm. And while I know that IDW loves telling us over and over and over again how well recieved GIJoe titles are (notice they never say how well they sell, and nothing spells success like having to remind your audience of it over and over and over again) I also know that in the three comic stores in my “area” all of them have dropped all GIJoe titles and only get them in on a pre-order basis. Something I’ve never seen with any comic I’ve ever bought before, and certainly never DDP’s GIJoe.

    Now GIJoe fans are a hardy bunch. We’ve gone years without anything and were still fans ready to pounce on the next GIJoe thing to show up in stores. So a bad movie, some not-so-great-but-maybe-getting-better comics or even over-priced toys aren’t going to keep us down. But Hasbro’s frantic scrambling is all over the place and if they don’t settle down and focus on something, it may well just annoy even us enough to let the franchise rest in peace.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Hasbro MUST support their endevours with great toys. It was annoying not to be able to get Resolute toys when the film came out, I can’t help but feel the IDW comic is going to be axed anyday because Hasbro won’t even release one figure to acknowledge its existance and now a full year gap between Renegades release and the toys for it? Sounds more to me like they are giving themselves a buffer zone in case the cartoon bombs. They don’t want to get caught again like they did with RoC.

    All that equates to a serious lack of confidence. And it is something to worry about.

    However, Renegades isn’t here yet. Pursuit of Cobra almost is and it looks incredible. I’ll be making sure Hasbro gets lots of my money when they produce stuff I love, so that even if Renegades doesn’t turn out, they will remember that PoC was successful and maybe go back to it. At the very least it will provide proof that there still is money to be made with this franchise.

    And who knows, maybe Renegades will absolutely rock and our biggest complaint about teh whole thing will be having to wait a year for some toys.

  • madmac41

    I for one prefer the more realistic style that G.I. Joe has always strived for with the 3 3/4 inch line and I would have liked to see this line run alongside the renegade line. Star Wars has proven that there is room for both styles at retail at the same time. I guess what I don’t get is why Hasbro is putting an end time on a line that hasn’t even hit retail yet let alone had a chace to prove itself.

  • http://www.compulsivecollector.com/ Compulsive Collector

    Good grief. Where to even begin with this nonsense?

    “But I couldn’t find anything but Dukes, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadows, Baronesses, Ripcords and Neo-Vipers from the first waves.”
    This is where “fans” like you go wrong, thinking it’s all about you, the adult who buys toys. Sorry, but keeping Snake-Eyes in the toy aisles had nothing to do with you, so please make some effort to get over yourself. Yes, there were too many Destro and Baroness figures on the pegs, but when new cases stopped arriving, Snake-Eyes quickly disappeared. It’s bad for the brand when a kid who was just introduced to G.I. JOE by the movie last year can’t find the most popular character in a store.

    “Oh, but they have also cancelled it before they were even able to gauge fan reaction (which was stellar). ….yes, saying there will be only 4 waves and then another line will be introduced is basically the same as cancelling it. Now when I go pick up wave 1 I already know the line is dead before I hold the first figure in my hands. That unfortunately has put a very bitter twist on this cool new line.”
    And? It’s a placeholder at retail to give fans something between the movie line and the new animated style. Why do you care if the line is only planned to last a year? If you like the figures, enjoy it. Does a packaging and theme change really mean that much? You didn’t work on the design, the Pursuit Of Cobra name wasn’t your idea, and there’s no media to get you invested in a story. Why take it so personally? Why can’t you just enjoy the figures as good toys? Honestly, why can’t you just have FUN with a hobby? Why does everything have to be so negative? Just how long can the sky be falling before it actually lands on us?

    “RoC was a GIJoe re-launch. The origin was re-invented. So was the new IDW comic. So is the upcoming Renegades. Where’s the confidence?”
    The Batman was a new story. So was Legion Of Super Heroes. So was Batman: The Brave And The Bold. So was Batman Begins. So was The Incredible Hulk. The same will be true of any Superman, Spider-Man, or Fantastic Four movies. Wolverine And The X-Men isn’t coming back next season. I guess all of that means Warner Bros., Marvel, Sony, and Fox have, “no confidence,” in Batman, Superman, the Hulk, Wolverine, Spiderman, or the Fantastic Four. I mean, it’s obvious that none of those characters can sell anything. Let me know when the abject illogicality of your thinking begins to take hold.

    “Pursuit of Cobra will sell well, I have no doubts. Maybe Hasbro will add on an extra wave after it sees just how well it does. But Renegades is already planned so PoCs days are numbered.”
    If POC sees even slightly better sales than 25th Anniversary/Modern Era, it will only be the result of exposure to new, young fans from The Rise Of Cobra and the new cartoon. Without that, it’s a niche collector line with a very low ceiling, just like 25th Anniversary was.

    “Same issue that happened to Resolute. Response was terrific with fans, and we wanted toys. Hasbro’s reaction? Wha? You guys actually liked that? Huh…well, we’re on to RoC now and we KNOW you’ll love that. Well, no, but that’s how Hasbro operates.”
    You’re putting too much value into that niche, adult collector market again. Besides, we weren’t all quite so enamored with the mindless slop that is Resolute. You presume to speak for all of the property’s fanbase, but you’re in no position to do so. I honestly don’t see much excitement for the seven-packs that are coming in a couple of months. I see a bunch of, “meh,” “whatever,” “maybe,” and, “we’ll see.”

    “They remembered we all went nuts about the Resolute cartoon, so they are throwing together a quick cartoon. And yeah, it’s quick, that’s why there is such a delay with the toyline (though a whole year seems ridiculous).”
    We’ve known it was in development for months, it’s still several months away from airing, and we haven’t even seen the character designs yet. Also, this new cartoon is not being made for YOU; Hasbro already has YOU. If they were making it for you, it would be on adult swim. You’re just typing to see your words on the screen now, even without the the slightest modicum of actual knowledge behind those words. I think waiting a full year between the debut of the cartoon and the launch of the corresponding line is a questionable call, but it won’t matter if Hasbro is already committed to multiple seasons of the show. That may very well be the case, and it’s not something they would share with the public.

    “And while I know that IDW loves telling us over and over and over again how well recieved GIJoe titles are (notice they never say how well they sell, and nothing spells success like having to remind your audience of it over and over and over again) I also know that in the three comic stores in my “area” all of them have dropped all GIJoe titles and only get them in on a pre-order basis. Something I’ve never seen with any comic I’ve ever bought before, and certainly never DDP’s GIJoe.”
    Do you live in an impoverished area? Are you in a rural setting where unemployment is exceptionally high? Because the IDW G.I. JOE books consistently sell out at my LCS. I have to be there on Wednesday just to get a copy of Origins, and I’ve never been a middle-of-the-week comic buyer. I’ve gone on weekends my entire collecting life, but I can’t do that with the IDW books.

    And yes, my anecdotal evidence is as inherently worthless as yours is. Just making a point.

    “But Hasbro’s frantic scrambling is all over the place and if they don’t settle down and focus on something, it may well just annoy even us enough to let the franchise rest in peace.”
    DETH OF TEH LINE!

    G.I. JOE was here before you, and it will be here after you.

    “…and now a full year gap between Renegades release and the toys for it? Sounds more to me like they are giving themselves a buffer zone in case the cartoon bombs. They don’t want to get caught again like they did with RoC.”
    Hasbro is not investing tens of thousands of dollars into new tooling for an animated-style line with the idea that it’s going to, “bomb,” in their heads. And, “caught”? The Rise Of Cobra stalled at retail after the DVD release, but very few movie lines escape that fate. If you haven’t figured out that G.I. JOE moved more units in 2009 than it had in YEARS, you’re completely out of touch with reality.

    “All that equates to a serious lack of confidence. And it is something to worry about.”
    Only in the mind of a conspiracy theorist collector who feels compelled to complain incessantly. Honestly, I don’t know why anyone participates in a hobby that makes him so miserable.

    Here are the facts: Hasbro is already committed to twenty-six episodes of Renegades. The show is not airing on Cartoon Network, but on a cable channel – in which Hasbro is a partner – that reaches fewer homes. That already rules out the notion of licensing fees to help recover production costs. It would be foolish to assume Discovery is splitting those costs evenly with Hasbro, as Hasbro has a lot more to gain from the success of the series. If they’re using a good animation studio, they’re looking at a cost of $250K per episode. If they go cheap, it’s a minimum of $150K (a very low estimate). They won’t be getting much in the way of advertising dollars, and even if they were, shows like this never make back their investment through the actual airing of the show (even the ones on Cartoon Network). Licensed merchandising and home video sales are necessary just to break even, never mind generating any kind of ROI. Thanks to the Children’s Television Act of 1990, Hasbro can’t even run ads for a G.I. JOE toy line during the show.

    And knowing all of this, they’re still sinking somewhere between $3.9 and $6.5 million into a new animated series. This renders the question of, “Where’s the confidence?” absolutely ridiculous.

  • http://www.compulsivecollector.com/ Compulsive Collector

    “Star Wars has proven that there is room for both styles at retail at the same time.”
    No, STAR WARS has proven that STAR WARS is popular enough to get away with that. It’s comparing apples and glockenspiels.

  • Chill Pill

    Dude, calm down.

  • http://www.coilclub.com Gary

    I don’t know who Hawkwinter is, but dude, I am a fan of your posts. Not everyone may agree with your comments but when you can find a reason to recall Shore Patrol = FTW! LOL!

  • Ron

    LOL at the Compulsive Collector. So your rebuttal to crap is more crap. The pro-Hasbro crowd is just as bad as the anti-Hasbro ones.

  • Yojoeski

    Do any of you actually understand that THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A SECOND MOVIE! Yeah ROC made a profit but everything about it, even down to DVD/Blu-Ray sales were less than what Hasbro wanted(which they apparently wanted it somewhere in Dark Knight neighborhood) and there is not going to be a second movie. GET IT? And yes, this is all Hasbro’s fault with bad business decisions.

  • http://gijoe.andybartlett.com Andy

    It was announced in January that Paramount greenlit G.I Joe 2. It has been known for months that the “Zombieland” writers are working on a script for G.I. Joe 2 (in fact, according an April 30 interview with producer Lorenzo di Bonaventura at MTV Movie Blog, he said it’s almost done and shooting could begin as early as spring ’11), and it has an anticipated release date of 2012.

    You can read that here: http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/04/30/exclusive-gi-joe-2-could-shoot-in-spring-2011-for-summer-2012-release/

    And, Dark Knight neighborhood? That means you honestly think Hasbro expected G.I. Joe to be bigger than Star Wars. Think about that for a minute. That’s madness.

  • http://lbamtoyreview.blogspot.com LBAM

    Hasbro is not stupid enough to bank on DVD sales for RoC being as high as for The Dark Knight. That’s absurd.

    And, Hawkwinter, I just want to clear something up; if it looked like my earlier post was ‘something that could’ve come from you,’ it was ENTIRELY an accident. I think the PoC figures look great and I plan to buy ALL of them, and probably all the vehicles. In fact, I can’t wait to get my hands on some of them. Hasbro is absolutely knocking it out of the park with the designs of the new figures and vehicles. I look forward to a healthy future for the G.I. Joe brand, which, let’s be clear, is NEVER going to approach the size or popularity of Star Wars and probably not of Transformers, so let’s stop making those endless comparisons.

    As for the IDW comics, I’ll add my own anecdotal evidence; my LCS tells me they’re selling well, and the fact that there are 3 ongoing titles as well as multiple mini-series…how does that speak to a lack of confidence? They’ve gotten a N.Y.Times best-selling author to write a comic mini-series (and a mention of an anthology of G.I. Joe fiction). Again, how does this speak to a lack of confidence? It doesn’t.

  • Silent Master

    Wow. Talk about ridiculous.

    Compulsive, do you and LBAM have the same writer by chance, making your posts? Sure seems like it with all the ultra-positive comments about how absolutely amazing and wonderful all of Hasbro’s decisions are, and how fantastic and super cool RoC and IDW are. Hate to burst your bubbles and all, but maybe you guys should take a step back and actually look at things a bit closer instead of trying to permanently attach those lips to Hasbro and companys’ backsides all the time.

    One thing of all this surely seems certain…Ron has Compulsive pegged to a Tee. Although, I do disagree slightly on one point. The pro-Hasbro guys are often worse in some regards than the Anti-guys, as they refuse to EVER see anything wrong with any of the boneheaded moves that Hasbro makes regarding GI Joe AND even Transformers. At least when Hasbro does something right, the Anti-guys will even praise it, or at least give some credit rather than continually down EVERYTHING. On the flip side, the pro-Hasbro guys, (some of them being referred to as Shore Patrol, from time to time), don’t ever seem to be willing to admit that Hasbro screws up…EVER. It seems like the anti-guys are more realistic while the pro-Hasbro guys are living in a fairytale together…?

    Well, guess what, Compulsive? That RoC movie and toyline that you seem to be sooo in love with? Yeah, the one that DID NOT meet expectations for anyone, EXCEPT those with very low expectations or just an absolute willingness to blind themselves to everyhing about it, just because it had a “G.I. Joe” logo splashed on it. You seem to be one of those guys for sure, yet you try to come across as being uber intelligent in your posi-tirade postings. Thing is, the RoC movie, whether you admit it or not, WAS and IS a failure for the line, BASED upon their expectations for profit yields. Sure, it managed a certain amount of success at the box office and with toy sales, but it was NOWHERE near the success it was expected (by Hasbro) to be. Did it make a lot of money? Sure did. More than any of us combined will ever likely see in our lifetimes, but it was still a dismal failure, in spite of the money it did make, BECAUSE it simply did not meet the expectations of the people involved with the bottom line. If you see it as a raging success, well, that’s your problem if you are so unwilling to admit that it wasn’t all that fantastic at the end of the day.

    IDW, is another group that you seem to feel can do no wrong with the Joe line of comics. Guess again! I keep hearing all of this positive press about how “great” the IDW Joe titles are doing. As someone who knows something about advertising and promotion, I can can tell you that this is a classic strategy used to lure a few more people in, while lulling those already being duped into complacency, so that they believe the hype and it reinforces their decision to keep buying a book or books, that they may normally consider dropping, because the company keeps telling them how good it is, when really, it isn’t. IDW is really going out of their way to hype these books, WAY more than DDP ever had to, even with that pathetic AE series at the end.

    My LCS barely orders the IDW junk, and then it is only ordered based on the people who still are willing to pick it up. I’ve seen more than one or two copies being stuck back over on the shelves because the people just don’t care for it anymore. I’m sure that there are instances on both sides to support good or bad sales, but the fact is, all of this hype is being done on an effort to make people THINK the books are doing far better than they really are. Three ongoing titles, multiple minis, and a NY Times best selling author? That screams desperation for anyone who knows adverstising. It’s called tricking people into believeing something is better than it really is, and they will do this even at cost to themselves, in order to try and turn it around.

    You see, IDW is making money on other properties and titles they have, not to mention the fact that they have unlimited access to print and sell any GI Joe series that have come before their own revamp of the franchise. Guess what, CC? ALL of the art and writing that has come before, has already been paid for 100% before their trade compilations ever go to print, so all they have to do is crank them out at total profit after printing, just like they’ve BEEN doing with the Marvel trades (almost since they snagged the license) and are about to be doing with the DDP stuff. Absolutely no cost to them except printing, and the more they print, the lower that cost is as well.

    Now, considering the success of those reprints (despite tossing Campbell covers on them that have no relevance to anything in the book), and the lack of interest and distaste that many, notice I said “many” NOT ALL, fans have for the so-called “new” take on GI Joe, that IDW has adopted, and quite frankly, has ticked many fans off with, these revamped ongoings are simply not cutting muster in the profit area, not like they want people like you, or even me, to believe. No, the fact is, and IDW will never admit to it, but the fans actually wanted the classic run from the beginning, and it is only NOW that we are seeing it because IDW has realized that they NEED those fans and their money to help keep the comics going. At the same time, they DO NOT want to admit that they were wrong with the revamp and ostricized a significant portion of the fanbase by going that route, so what they do is make up some lame cover story, such as how they’ve chosen to diversify the line to attract more fans AND to make the fans of the original come (back) into the fold (and hopefully, buy the other titles once reeled in with the classic series continuation), rather than just admit that they messed up in the first place and move forward with everything as it is.

    You can believe it or not, like it or not, whatever you choose. Comic companies, and other types of companies do the same type of thing when sales are down. Books not selling? Okay, let’s do something clever and new for “GI Joe” that will (MAYBE) get those sales up. Hmmm, what can we do? Oh, let’s get some NY Times best seller guy to write a Joe mini-series! That will certainly pack them in. Wrong…It won’t. Cobra? Let’s just say, it ISN’T quite the success that they’d have us all believe. Not to be too blunt, but I’ve seen better work go down the toilet with, well…You get the idea.

    Nonetheless, this “lack of confidence” in the brand, is right there in front of us all, if we are strong enough to take a good hard look at the facts, and see them for what they are, not some make believe fairytale that some would have us believe, though I won’t name any names (Compulsive Collector…LBAM…Andy…there are more), but Hasbro does lack a certain confidence it would seem. Otherwise, why continuously change, change, change and alter things left and right, if RoC was such a brilliant success? Not a chance. Hasbro keeps on running BACK to the Classic Joe stuff, virtually everytime they branch out with a flop. They did it when Sigma 6 flopped, and now again with the failure of RoC. The PoC stuff is now a DEVIATION, rather than a continuation of RoC, beckoning back more to the classic tone with a new twist on familiar figures, unlike the rather dull, dark and blase versions from RoC. Even Sigma 6 made more sense than RoC, though I din’t care for the scale and goofy sculpting of that line. If the confidence was there, then there wouldn’t be such a need to continuously alter and cancel. I’m not even talking about rehashing the original line over and over, before anyone tries beating that dead horse again.

    All of those other Marvel and DC titles and cartoons that were named off, well, most all of those have MULTIPLE comic titles running congruently alongside each other, so if they want to cancel a title or relaunch one, guess what? The majority of the time the character runs true to the original series. Cartoons? The cartoons change. They come and go, depending upon what gets the ratings, so they can pour tons of money into a series, but that doesn’t guarantee a success just because it’s the Hulk or Spidey or whatever, so try again. Please. If RoC was so great, Hasbro would have continued to BACK it and market it, NOT drop it like a hot potato and totally shift gears into something else unrelated (and NO, PoC isn’t really related to what RoC WAS), and THAT, Compulsive, is what Hawkwinter has been trying to say when he has spoken on the matter of confidence or no confidence. (Also, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t claim to speak for ALL fans, so just put that nonsense back into your pocket. It’s a nullfactor, which anyone with a brainstem can understand that when someone makes a general comment, and says “fans”, they are speaking in general, not for everyone. It’s quite simple to grasp, really.)

    Clearly, Hasbro has NO confidence in RoC, and it doesn’t look good for overall confidence in GI Joe as a whole right now, really. That doesn’t mean GI Joe will suddenly cease to be, like some fear it will be if they do not buy EVERYTHING with the logo splashed on it. Yet they continue to throw good money after bad towards finding some new fabulous thing that will rejuvenate the brand, rather than expanding on the original concept line with new characters and interesting versions of old favorites (NOT rehashes of the same molds over and over each wave/line).

    If IDW believes that GI Joe can compete against itself with the classic Marvel and all the revamp/new stuff, then surely Hasbro can run two separate lines concurrently and make them a success, such as PoC and Renegades, for example. Star Wars is infinitely more successful than GI Joe, so there is no real comparison on that point, true enough. However, SW manages three separate lines on a constant cycle, so I am sure that Joe could manage something like PoC/Renegades (or Resolute) running alongside each other. On a financial level, I’m quite happy that they do not, so on that point, I see this as a bonus.

    My parting thought…Shore Patrol, WAKE up!! The illegal immigrants are swarming through. No, seriously, take an honest look at things and take off those rose colored glasses for more than just while you sleep and dream about GI Joe…

  • http://gijoe.andybartlett.com Andy

    I’m not saying anything is a fairy tale; all I’m saying is that every few months new G.I. Joe toys that I think are cool show up at Target, so every few months I buy them and take them home. I enjoy that. “Rise of Cobra” was a bad movie, but it’s fun to watch. It’s what I expected it to be; a bad movie that’s fun to watch, like most movies. That bad movie that was fun to watch had what I thought was a pretty good toy line; I live in a pretty small town that’s 100 miles from any reasonably-sized town, and despite the glut of early-release pegwarmers I managed to get everything but Kamakura and a couple of the TRU repaint packs that weren’t really a priority anyway.

    IDW’s two main G.I. Joe books were both in the top 150 of single-issue sales for April of this year; I’d have to look again to make sure but I think the ongoing series was something like 129th, and Origins was in the high-140s. G.I. Joe: Cobra was something like 155th. All were higher than IDW’s Transformers stuff. I haven’t read everything; I’m just now getting into these — I thought the first five issues of Origins, the Snake Eyes origin written by Larry Hama, were awful; I have only read the first few issues of the ongoing series, and it’s OK; G.I. Joe: Cobra is, in my estimation, fantastic. The new “Hearts and Minds” series looks *great*.

    Multiple titles are just the way the comic book industry rolls right now; look at Marvel and DC, and everybody runs “franchises.” There’s no singular X-Men book any more. Look at Marvel’s “Avengers” reboot this week – they didn’t just launch an “Avengers” book, they launched a half-dozen books in the Avengers franchise. IDW’s G.I. Joe stuff is the same way; they’re establishing a franchise, because that’s how the industry is going right now. Each book requires a writer, an artist, colorists, editors, a printing budget, a distribution budget, an advertising budget, etc.; they’re not just doing this stuff for fun.

    I’m definitely curious to see which of IDW’s titles end up selling better; the current ongoing title or the “Real American Hero” line extension that they’re starting up this summer. The “155 1/2″ issue IDW put out for Free Comic Book Day a few weeks ago is kindof a mess; I want to go through it a couple more times, just because of what it represents, but at first glance I wasn’t impressed.

    Finally, you make your own point in the next-to-last graf; “On a financial level, I’m quite happy they do not.” We have the situation we do with G.I. Joe availability at retail because, in Hasbro’s estimation, based on market research and not anecdotal evidence, more people are like you than not.

    The circular logic of some of these anti-Hasbro rants entertain me as well; the majority of them are predicated on the notion that Rise of Cobra was the worst thing to hit the planet since an asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs, but at the same time Hasbro sucks for not having “confidence” in it. Hasbro bailed on the “Rise of Cobra” sinking ship; now we have to deal with the fallout.

    I don’t expect things to be any more than they are; I think things are good, I buy them (most Joe stuff). I don’t think things are good, I leave ‘em alone (the Rip Attack vehicles). When movie Neo-Vipers were eight bucks, I bought one for my collection and let the rest of ‘em rot. Now that they’re on clearance for three bucks, I buy as many of ‘em as I find. And I still think the Cobra Scarab or Steel-Whatever-The-Toy-Was-Called is one of the cooler vehicles I own.

    I’m happy because I don’t expect anything to be what it’s not, and I don’t have what I consider to be unreasonable expectations. Finally, if I think something sucks, I just leave it alone and go home. Hasbro doesn’t owe me anything; if they make stuff I like I’ll buy it. If not, I’ll spend my money somewhere else. I’ve got a 300-square-foot toy room, but I’ve also got a good job, a great wife and three kids. So what if I’m not crazy about the design of the ROC Flash?

    If that’s the “la-la land” of some hobby apologist, I’ll take it. :)

  • http://www.compulsivecollector.com/ Compulsive Collector

    I am going to make my very best effort to take that response seriously. :-)

    I’m not a, “pro-Hasbro,” guy; I’m a rational collector. There are a few Pursuit Of Cobra figures that I don’t like, I’m not interested in most of the vehicles, and I think the mech suits are hideous. The difference between someone like me and can’t-live-without-complaining types like you, however, is that I tend to focus on what I enjoy about my hobby. I’m not looking for a reason to weep softly into my pillow over the ways in which a corporate toy manufacturer wronged me. I’m not offended by the mech suits, or anything. They just don’t appeal to me.

    “Compulsive, do you and LBAM have the same writer by chance, making your posts? Sure seems like it with all the ultra-positive comments about how absolutely amazing and wonderful all of Hasbro’s decisions are, and how fantastic and super cool RoC and IDW are.”
    Doesn’t waste any time, huh? Opens with a conspiracy theory right away. But hey, I can live with the comparison.

    “Well, guess what, Compulsive?”
    I don’t need to guess; I know.

    “That RoC movie and toyline that you seem to be sooo in love with? Yeah, the one that DID NOT meet expectations for anyone, EXCEPT those with very low expectations or just an absolute willingness to blind themselves to everyhing about it, just because it had a “G.I. Joe” logo splashed on it. You seem to be one of those guys for sure, yet you try to come across as being uber intelligent in your posi-tirade postings.”
    Even if it didn’t meet expectations, 1) I didn’t say anything about those in the first place, and 2) my point about more G.I. JOE toys being sold in 2009 than had sold in many years still stands. Also, I don’t, “try to come across as,” anything, but I’m not going to dumb down my commentary in the hopes that you’ll be able to keep up in the discussion.

    “IDW, is another group that you seem to feel can do no wrong with the Joe line of comics. Guess again! I keep hearing all of this positive press about how “great” the IDW Joe titles are doing.”
    There you go, venturing off into Nonsense Land again. Aside from Origins and Cobra, I don’t even read the IDW books, and I buy Origins mostly for the Tom Feister covers. I think Chuck Dixon is ten kinds of wrong for G.I. JOE, and he can’t keep my interest on the property. If you could get over your mentality of, “Anyone who doesn’t spend every waking moment in a rage over how terrible everything about G.I. JOE is must be in love with Hasbro/IDW/Paramount/whatever company is murdering my childhood,” you might actually learn something.

    “As someone who knows something about advertising and promotion, I can can tell you…”
    Cute. I work in the entertainment industry, my company is #1 in the world in what we do, and I run one of the marketing departments. Save whatever insight you think you have; I got this.

    “I’m sure that there are instances on both sides to support good or bad sales, but the fact is, all of this hype is being done on an effort to make people THINK the books are doing far better than they really are.”
    But what do the other two Lone Gunmen think?

    “Now, considering the success of those reprints…”
    Are you serious? Have you looked at the numbers on those books? You know that information gets published, right?

    “Nonetheless, this “lack of confidence” in the brand, is right there in front of us all, if we are strong enough to take a good hard look at the facts, and see them for what they are…”
    Just so everyone knows, “are strong enough to take a good hard look at the facts,” translates directly into, “interpret everything as a vast conspiracy that’s intended to deceive the limited number of adults who collect G.I. JOE toys.”

    “Cartoons? The cartoons change. They come and go, depending upon what gets the ratings, so they can pour tons of money into a series, but that doesn’t guarantee a success just because it’s the Hulk or Spidey or whatever, so try again.”
    Wow, that whole point went right over your head, didn’t it? I’d suggest reading it again, but I doubt it would help. And no, cartoons don’t just, “come and go.” There’s a huge investment behind each and every new series, which requires – wait for it – confidence in the brand being developed for television. The same is true of toy lines. Not the properties, but the actually lines that change and evolve. You know what definitely isn’t a guaranteed success? A rehash of ’80s G.I. JOE. That’s why Hasbro continues to allow creators to further its evolution.

    “If RoC was so great, Hasbro would have continued to BACK it and market it, NOT drop it like a hot potato and totally shift gears into something else unrelated (and NO, PoC isn’t really related to what RoC WAS), and THAT, Compulsive, is what Hawkwinter has been trying to say when he has spoken on the matter of confidence or no confidence.”
    1) I never said The Rise Of Cobra was, “so great.” Focus, please. 2) Hawkwinter was quite clearly suggesting that Hasbro lacks confidence in the property, not just in the theatrical release, and I illustrated just how much confidence Hasbro actually does have in G.I. JOE. Simple.

    “Also, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t claim to speak for ALL fans, so just put that nonsense back into your pocket. It’s a nullfactor, which anyone with a brainstem can understand that when someone makes a general comment, and says “fans”, they are speaking in general, not for everyone. It’s quite simple to grasp, really.”
    It’s a faux argumentum ad populum. With everything else you’ve missed, I don’t expect you to, “grasp,” that, but it’s exactly what he was doing with that particular bit of commentary. He substituted, “the fans,” for himself.

    “Clearly, Hasbro has NO confidence in RoC, and it doesn’t look good for overall confidence in GI Joe as a whole right now, really.”
    The Rise Of Cobra is behind us (for now), and the polar opposite is true for the property itself. That’s been spelled out in plain English right here on this page. A little rational thought and objectivity could go a long way here.

    “If IDW believes that GI Joe can compete against itself with the classic Marvel and all the revamp/new stuff, then surely Hasbro can run two separate lines concurrently and make them a success, such as PoC and Renegades, for example. Star Wars is infinitely more successful than GI Joe, so there is no real comparison on that point, true enough. However, SW manages three separate lines on a constant cycle, so I am sure that Joe could manage something like PoC/Renegades (or Resolute) running alongside each other.”
    This is the result of an utter lack of understanding of the relationship between manufacturer and retailer. STAR WARS can run competing lines because the retailers agree to buy them. Hasbro cannot simply introduce two G.I. JOE lines and impose them on Wal-Mart, Target, and other Big Box chains. If Hasbro could convince Wal-Mart to commit to multiple lines, and if there was actually a market for them, it would happen. The simple truth – the one adults who think their hobby dollars are enough to support a line at mass retail refuse to accept – is that a brand needs media to get kids on board. If the new animation is a huge hit, who knows? You could see Renegades on six pegs with two pegs of 30th Anniversary figures in 2012. As much as 25th Anniversary/Modern Era was prom queen among collectors, it was a niche line that shipped to retailers in limited quantities. And just like The Rise Of Cobra, which you insist was BIGGEST. FAILURE. EVER., retailers had to clearance off those 25th/ME toys to make room for something else. Figures and vehicles were gathering dust at 75% off at Target. The notion that two G.I. JOE lines can thrive in one toy aisle is completely unsupported by the facts, and corporate buyers are more than aware of this.

    Furthermore, direct market comic shops are hardly the same thing as Big Box retailers. Were you trying to get a laugh with that comparison? Because that’s what it is, a joke. At the publisher/manufacturer level, a comic book can be printed for a hell of a lot less than an action figure consisting of all new tooling can be manufactured. There’s also a significantly smaller gap between Chris Ryall and the owner of IDW than what exists between G.I. JOE’s brand manager and Hasbro shareholders. I know you believe acquiescence to the most vocal complainers is the only possible recipe for success with G.I. JOE, but little things like reality get in the way of your logic.

    “No, seriously, take an honest look at things and take off those rose colored glasses for more than just while you sleep and dream about GI Joe…”
    Once again, why do people who are made to feel miserable, neglected, and constantly compelled to have tantrums on the internet by a totally voluntary hobby continue to participate in it? Hobbies are supposed to be fun. If everything is so terrible, and you’re always being slighted by the company who profits from what you collect, why don’t you find other ways to spend your time and money? Anyone who’s actually enjoyed collecting G.I. JOE for the last three years is an apologist, an ass-kisser, a shill, a plant, afraid G.I. JOE will die if he/she doesn’t buy everything, or some other rubbish along those lines. In case you’re interested in anything beyond this warped perception, Hasbro releases plenty of G.I. JOE toys that I don’t like. When it happens, you know what I do? I don’t buy it. That’s where it ends, though. I don’t rush home to blast Hasbro and say they’re the worst company ever because I didn’t like a toy. I don’t like every Led Zeppelin song, either, but I listen to the ones I do like without saying they murdered rock music by being the suckiest band in the history of suck.

  • Hawkwinter

    Isn’t everyone soooooo happy good ol Compulsive Collector is around to let us poor slobs know how things really work? Good God man, get over yourself.

    But since you brought this up :

    “Are you serious? Have you looked at the numbers on those books? You know that information gets published, right?”

    So let’s get serious. Because yes, anyone can look up the numbers (Icv2.com) and they do NOT look good.

    DDP’s original Joe title launched with 62,375 issues sold (September 2001). By the 16th issue it had dropped to 43,680 issues. A 30% drop in sales.

    DDP’s America’s Elite launched at 27,152 copies and was at 17,325 copies sold by issue 16, a 36% drop in sales.

    In comparison IDW’s GIJoe title launched at a good 32,840, and now sits at 13,129 with issue 16, a whopping 62% loss of sales.

    I won’t even really compare the direct numbers as IDW is a small company and these sales are actually decent for them, the bigger concern for all fans is the 61% drop. That is not good. Each month the title is losing readers, at a very substantial rate.

    Before anyone cries foul and brings up the fact that sales for comicbooks in general are falling, take a look at the upper titles. In September 2001 when DDP GIJoe # 1 launched the best selling title sold 125,952 copies, in April of 2010 the top selling title sold 129,446 copies, basically close enough to call even. So quality still sells.

    DDP GIJoe #4 was #7 in sales for its month. Issue 16 was #26, IDW #16 was 129.

    But again, that’s not really the big worrying factor, the 61% drop in sales is a real problem.

    Also, I’ve seen a lot of sites report how successful GIJoe COBRA is, but it sits around the 10,000 to 11,000 mark, nothing thrilling there either.

    Like Andy I too am very curious to see how GIJoe #156 and beyond will do. Silent Master is dead on when he’s talking about desperate moves and that IDW is banking on the new Hama Joe title to do a lot more than just be a nod to the old school fans.

    This does not mean I don’t want the Joe comics to succeed. My concern about things keeps getting misinterpretted as me being some sort of Hasbro hater.

    And LBAM, maybe you got the wrong impression but I am actually very excited about the PoC toyline as well, I’ve posted all over the place about how cool it looks and that I’ve pre-ordered cases already, so I’m not sure what that was about.

    Looking forward to your next post Compulsive Collector, we’ve been laughing ourselves sick over your “logic”.

  • http://www.compulsivecollector.com/ Compulsive Collector

    “Isn’t everyone soooooo happy good ol Compulsive Collector is around to let us poor slobs know how things really work? Good God man, get over yourself.”
    Of course you’re not happy, because reality doesn’t support your doom and gloom nonsense. You seem incapable of processing anything beyond, “Hasbro is running G.I. JOE into the ground.”

    “So let’s get serious. Because yes, anyone can look up the numbers (Icv2.com) and they do NOT look good.”
    Is there some underlying connection between reading comprehension deficiencies and the Hasbro-is-stupid mentality? I was referring specifically to the numbers of the, “reprints,” the trade paperback collections of the ’80s Marvel title. I quoted the comment to which I was responding for context, but you still couldn’t wrap your head around it. You just charged ahead with a bunch of irrelevant information that had no bearing on what was posted.

    “So quality still sells.”
    Correction: Marvel and DC superhero comics still sell, especially “event” titles. The market for G.I. JOE is never going to be that big, regardless of how good the books are. Since so many comic readers are continuity junkies, a reboot isn’t going to help with that. As long as the license is profitable for IDW (and they wouldn’t keep investing in new titles if it wasn’t), there’s no problem.

    And if laughter helps you cope with the pain of facing facts, then by all means, laugh away.

  • http://gijoe.andybartlett.com Andy

    Pointing out the drop in sales from issue 1 to issue 16 don’t really mean anything when taken in a vacuum; for example, Marvel’s “Deadpool” books see sizeable readership drops from issue 1-16 (about 33 percent), and Deadpool as a property is rocking for Marvel right now.

    http://www.deadpoolbugle.com/2010/05/april-2010-deadpool-sales-data.html

    DC’s “Batman and Robin” title launched last year with a print run of 190,000 for Issue #1; Issue #11 in April had a run of 84,000 — a 66-percent drop.

    The point being, every month every title loses readers at a substantial rate; some more than others, certainly. But it’s a comic industry phenomenon, not one specific to G.I. Joe.

    For IDW books, you could go so far as to legitimately say that issue sales are no way to accurately gauge readership – perhaps early in the title’s run, the majority of the readers made a point to purchase all three of the variant covers for each issue (likely). Perhaps as time as gone on, the majority of those readers just pick up one copy and aren’t actively buying all three covers every month (also likely). Therefore, you could have an identical number of readers from one issue to the next and lose half of your sales if every reader quit collecting cover variants.

    It looks like IDW’s G.I. Joe #1 had seven cover variants, although only four look like they were distributed beyond retailer or event exclusives:
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=1855&disp=table

    That alone would account for a significant boost in single-issue sales while having no impact whatsoever on actual readership.

    Also, first issues are targets for speculators and investors, such that there are in today’s comic market (which I don’t remotely profess to have any exceptional knowledge of). When the Image Joe book came out, it was the first significant “G.I. Joe #1″ in what, two decades, and the first G.I. Joe comic of any kind in years. That alone probably helped its sales. IDW’s book didn’t launch in the same product vacuum.

    Also, high sales don’t equate to high profitability; we have no idea how much IDW spends producing and distributing an issue of a G.I. Joe book. For all we know, hiring whatever writer/artist combination they might need to get a book that they could pour advertising money into increasing readership for would reduce the profit margin on the title to the point where it didn’t make sense. Still, IDW’s showing it’s willing to try things like this, with the big push it’s giving “Hearts and Minds.”

    Even anecdotally, the Joe books must be doing OK for IDW since they’re producing MORE titles, not less.

    There’s so much more to all of this than just quoting a number and then saying “we’re doomed.” Before you fire back, note that I’m not saying everything is necessarily wine and roses either – I’m just saying it’s an incredibly complicated issue, and there’s more to a valid analysis of what’s going on than vomiting out some numbers that took five minutes to research.

  • Hawkwinter

    You are an idiot aren’t you? I knew you’d fall for that post.

    “Is there some underlying connection between reading comprehension deficiencies and the Hasbro-is-stupid mentality? I was referring specifically to the numbers of the, “reprints,” the trade paperback collections of the ’80s Marvel title. I quoted the comment to which I was responding for context, but you still couldn’t wrap your head around it. You just charged ahead with a bunch of irrelevant information that had no bearing on what was posted.”

    So first thing, I was not only responding to you (yes I know you think the world revolves around you but I’m sorry to tell you, it doesn’t), I was addressing the general arguement that my concerns about IDW titles not selling as well as people/IDW say are in fact valid. Based on actual numbers, not something I dreamed up over coffee break.

    So you think 1,600 – 1,700 is really that good?

    Good TPB sell in the 3,000 – 4,000 range, great ones sell 10,000 plus.

    Next time before you go and post another dumb ass comment check the numbers.

    Look up the definition for the word facts. Nothing you have posted even remotely comes close.

    And while I know it makes you feel better to continually claim I am some sort of Hasbro hater, you are again, completely clueless. Maybe take your OWN advise and actually READ a post or two.

    Raising concerns about a product and the direction it is going in is not the same as saying I hate Hasbro, everything they do is crap or even that they are running things into the ground. I never once said that. For the record I said (and I’ve capitalized words to direct your attention to what was relevant since you just can’t seem to grasp it):

    “IF they don’t settle down and focus on something, it MAY well just annoy EVEN US enough to let the franchise rest in peace.”

    get it?

  • Silent Master

    “Looking forward to your next post Compulsive Collector, we’ve been laughing ourselves sick over your “logic”.” –Hawkwinter

    Well, I certainly know I got a huge laugh out of his sad little rhetoric. (I don’t think that as intelligent as he thinks himself to be, as he only barely even managed to grasp about half of what was spelled out right in front of him. He seemed a bit busy waiting for his opportunity to toss out a string of really intelligent sounding words like, “It’s a faux argumentum ad populum.”, but that’s okay.) Most of us can see that you are more interested in coming across as “super brilliant” and “superor” to everyone here, than actually comprehending what was ACTUALLY posted to be read and discussed, much less without contradicting yourself a considerable bit.

    “With everything else you’ve missed, I don’t expect you to, “grasp,” that, but it’s exactly what he was doing with that particular bit of commentary. He substituted, “the fans,” for himself.” –Compulsive

    A prime example of you not being as intelligent as you THINK you are and want everyone else to believe you to be is this statement. In fact, no, he did NOT substitute “the fans” for himself, “professor”. What he DID was to use the general GROUPING of “the fans” and himself included in there, to represent those particular FANS (of which there are more than a few) who happen to agree with what he happens to be saying at any given time. Sometimes it may include even you, but this time it did not, so you go off about how he is in no position to speak for all fans. It doesn’t take a super genius to grasp this not-so-subtle detail, “Herr Doktor.” He clearly ISN’T trying to speak for ALL fans with his general statement, but he DOES speak for many of them who perhaps do not post because of people, nay, collectors, like you whom feel the need to always have the last word or who may always have to be right, and I quote: “I don’t need to guess; I know.” In case no one has ever told you this before, you don’t know as much as you think you do.

    “Cute. I work in the entertainment industry, my company is #1 in the world in what we do, and I run one of the marketing departments. Save whatever insight you think you have; I got this.” Compulsive

    Yes, I know, you think you have this, but I find it rather convenient that you just “happen” to work for THE #1 company in the world that does what you do and that you “run” one of the marketing departments there. As for insight, I happen to have a different perspective and insight on the particular topic of discussion here, and for the record, I never claimed to be an expert on the matter, but I do know what I know about this particular ploy. You can continue “running” your particular department, but never be so conceited about what you THINK you know that you cannot learn a thing or two along the way from someone else. You may very well be professionally employed doing this job you claim to have, but that doesn’t make you the sole expert in the field of marketing (otherwise, you’d likely be over ALL the marketing in your particular company, and not just “running” ONE of the departments), so before you go making yourself out to be all high and mighty with the job you do and claiming to work for THE #1 company worldwide, just remember, you can always learn something new if you pay attention.

    Take for example the FACT that advertising has changed dramatically over the last 2 decades, so everything that people knew about getting sales and hyping their products has changed in more than one way. This is true of almost everything. so you might want to consider that very real factor and not get too complacent with your job, or you could be replaced by some new young gun who “knows everything” about advertising and marketing. Wouldn’t be the first time it happened to someone, and likely not the last. Either way, you can go do your job and save the ego for the bosses where you work. They may buy it, and the people you work with may be intimidated by it, but I’m not buying it, nor am I intimidated by it. But, I digress…

    You seem to be somewhat confused though. I’ve read a good many of the posts you’ve left here and there, and you CONSTANTLY talk about how successful and wonderful RoC is, yet you turn around and say that you don’t say these things. Well, which is it? Sure, it made money, I’ve stated this myself. However, the simple fact that it was responsible for selling more toys than anything else GI Joe in recent years, does NOT prevent it from being a failure, ACCORDING TO PROJECTED EXPECTATIONS, which is something not based on opinion, either mine or anyone else’s, but a simple business FACT. You should understand this, it’s basic business, afterall. You should note that I said it was a failure, and a big failure, but not the “BIGGEST”, although it did suck pretty bad. Regardless, it made money, but there is a ton of the product still out there on the shelves because it didn’t sell what they had hoped and planned for it to sell according to THEIR projected estimates. Get past it and live life outside of this sad little “defense of RoC” that you’ve set yourself up in. It wasn’t as good as you have yourself convinced that is was, regardless of it being able to generate more toy sales in one year than GI Joe has done in recent years or not, THAT is simply not the point at all, but you don’t seem to grasp the point of very much, from what I have observed of your posts.

    Oh, and let me just be the first to assure you, Einstein, I certainly do NOT need you to dumb down your adorable little posts so that I can understand you. I have a rather extensive vocabulary and the intellect with which to use and comprehend it. You may want to work on your reading comprehension though, because you seem to miss everything of relevance and focus on all of the piddly little things instead, so you can hurl those big boy words at everyone in an attempt to make as many as possible think you are brilliant. You aren’t quite as brilliant as you may believe yourself to be, but you do come off as a massive pseudo-intellectual, and while I’m sure you may have read a book or two, the bigger words do not make you any more right than your lack of grasping the facts in front of your face. You can continue as you have been, and I am very able to keep up with you, no problam at all.

    Just a few more things. I am not a Hasbro hater, but at the same time, I do feel the freedom to express on the things I like or don’t like with what they may be doing at any given time. Does me speaking my mind constitute being a Hasbro hater? No. It doesn’t, it simply means I have the freewill to resist kissing Hasbro’s backside constantly. (YOU on the other hand are always going on about how good of a job they are doing, even when something tanks, you can’t resist.) There are plenty of things I buy and plenty that I don’t buy. Like you, if I don’t like something, such as those goofy Mechs, then I don’t buy them, simple as that. Do you think you’re the ONLY one who does this?! You aren’t, but at least I have the willingness to let Hasbro and other fans know that I don’t like something when I see it. That doesn’t make me either a hater or a conspiracy minded person. I am looking forward to the PoC stuff, and to a point, even the Resolute stuff. I’ll reserve judgement on Renegades for when it is more relevant to my wallet.

    As for cartoons, you must be clueless. Cartoons have tons of money sunk into them and they are ever changing from month to month. Simply put, if it isn’t getting the ratings, it gets the can, no matter what company funded it or how much was put into it. They simply pull it and don’t put more into that series, because they usually have something else in production just in case. Look at all the Marvel cartoons out there in recent years, even DC. They go for awhile, then they stop, some last longer than others and some barely make it out of the gate.

    As for comics, there are very few singular titles anymore because the bigger companies are busy trying to capitalize on the characters in an effort to make money. The company is a business, that’s what businesses do, and having multiple X-Titles or Superman, Spidey, whatever, is nothing new at all. They want as many opportunities to capitalize on those characters as possible, which is why we have Wolverine, Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, etc., guesting in every book under the sun, Andy. So of course, based on this model, the smaller companies try and do the same with things like GI Joe. Why do you think this is new? It’s been going on for over 20 years or longer.

    As for the success of the IDW Joe comic lines, well, Hawkwinter’s research on the numbers should have placed the facts firmly on the table for everyone to see what we’ve been saying all along here. You erroneously believed him to be directing those at you, thanks to your massively self-inflated ego, apparently, but if you bothered to read any of the posts prior to his or even mine, you’d see that this was a topic of discussion, so no, everything ISN’T about you, CC.

    Regarding the “success” of the trades I mentioned, well, you have to use some common sense and understand that compared to Marvel, DC, or Dark Horse trade releases, the Joe TPB’s aren’t going to really compete in that arena, just as the Joe comics can’t compete against the 100+ comics above them in line, but considering that this is the second and even third printing of Vols. 1-5, the sales are still pretty successful given their release from a smaller indy company, the franchise being represented and the other trades they are competing against, not to mention the fact that once printing is paid on them, everything else is basically profit.

    So, in their own way, they are just as successful as you claim RoC is for the toys, and yes I know, they are two completely different things, but the similarities are there if you compare RoC to Star Wars or GI Joe TPBs to Watchmen for example. There is no comparison in financial terms of which made more money, but there is if you factor in their competition on the respective markets. This is JUST an example, so try not to get too worked up about this comparison. The trades are successful as far as what is invested vs. returned on them, even if they aren’t that successful in the overall market. Sorry if you didn’t get that, but I thought your super intellect would have inferred those other factors, what with you being so brillaint and all-knowledgable about marketing, advertising, toys, cartoons and GI joe in general. I’ll try to spell it out for you more clearly next time.

    Finally, just because I don’t particularly like something that hasbro did or didn’t do, does not mean that I obsess or dwell on it constantly. I don’t lose a second of sleep over any of it, and when I post on it, you can rest assured that it is for the sake of discussion and an attempt to open people’s eyes to a small degree so that they can see a new perspective. Oh, and there ARE people who do go out and buy EVERYTHING they can get their hands on, with a Joe logo on it, because those people ARE afraid thet hasbro will stop making Joe products if they don’t ALL sell well. I know they exist, because I’ve read posts on here from people who do go to that degree of concern and purchase everything they can, for that very reason. I am definitely not one of them. I buy what I like and I don’t buy the rest. Then I speak my mind about what I like or don’t like, depending on the forum. If Hasbro reads it and chooses to change something for the good, then great, if not, so what? I siad my piece and that’s what these forums are for, to discuss GI joe, good or ill.

    ” “IF they don’t settle down and focus on something, it MAY well just annoy EVEN US enough to let the franchise rest in peace.”

    get it?” –Hawkwinter

    No, Hawkwinter, I’m actually fairly confident that he doesn’t get it at all, and probably won’t even bother trying to get it either. Guys like him seldom do, because they have themselves convinced that they “know” everything there is to know.

    On a final note, Gary, Ron, those were some sweet posts. Hopefully, you’ve been further entertained over the subsequent postings and will continue to enjoy Hawkwinter’s work and view Compulsive’s comments as what his name implies, the obligatory or irresistible and impulsive need to act, or in his case to apparently “buy collectibles” (I’m assuming GI Joe for sure, amongst others). I think we can safely include as part of his “compulsion”, spouting off at the “mouth” or keyboard of you will, in a pseudo-intellectual capacity towards other collectors, who have viewpoints not in line with kissing Hasbro’s collective @$$, all while completely NOT getting his facts straight when reposting his own comments toward these individuals.

  • http://www.compulsivecollector.com/ Compulsive Collector

    “You are an idiot aren’t you?”
    Because I can actually read and comprehend the words in front of me? If you say so.

    “So first thing, I was not only responding to you (yes I know you think the world revolves around you but I’m sorry to tell you, it doesn’t), I was addressing the general arguement that my concerns about IDW titles not selling as well as people/IDW say are in fact valid.”
    Nice try. You were responding directly to what I’d said. You even quoted my comment. The only problem was that you didn’t understand what you read, and the really funny part is that you still don’t.

    “So you think 1,600 – 1,700 is really that good?”
    No, not at all. That’s why I said, “Are you serious? Have you looked at the numbers on those books? You know that information gets published, right?” in response to, “considering the success of those reprints…”

    “Next time before you go and post another dumb ass comment check the numbers.”
    The only thing you should be focusing on right now is your own egregious inability to communicate via the written word.

    “get it?”
    Oh, yes, I do. I’m afraid you just never will, though.

    “He seemed a bit busy waiting for his opportunity to toss out a string of really intelligent sounding words”
    That’s, “really intelligent sounding,” to you? Wow. It’s my initial reaction to your nonsense as I’m having my coffee on a Sunday. Says a lot more about you than it does about me, slick.

    “Yes, I know, you think you have this, but I find it rather convenient that you just “happen” to work for THE #1 company in the world that does what you do and that you “run” one of the marketing departments there.”
    Of course you do! Everything is a conspiracy with you, everyone is out to deceive you, and anyone who doesn’t join in your hatred of Hasbro is in on it. Yawn. You’re like a broken record.

    “…but never be so conceited about what you THINK you know that you cannot learn a thing or two along the way from someone else.”
    I learn new things every day, but your mistake is believing I have anything to learn from *you*. Unlike you, I’m always willing to learn from those more knowledgeable than myself. You don’t qualify here, slick.

    “You seem to be somewhat confused though. I’ve read a good many of the posts you’ve left here and there, and you CONSTANTLY talk about how successful and wonderful RoC is, yet you turn around and say that you don’t say these things. Well, which is it?”
    I’m the one who’s confused, but you believe I have to personally want something for it to be successful? You really are a hoot. I don’t watch American Idol, I didn’t see Avatar, and I don’t own an iPhone. Does that mean those things are not successful?

    And you wonder why you aren’t taken seriously…

    “Oh, and let me just be the first to assure you, Einstein, I certainly do NOT need you to dumb down your adorable little posts so that I can understand you. I have a rather extensive vocabulary and the intellect with which to use and comprehend it.”
    Heh. Ha, ha, ha. Seriously? You can barely form a coherent sentence of your own, never mind grasp what’s on the screen in front of your eyes.

    I know there’s no convincing either of you that Hasbro isn’t out to hurt your little feelings with every decision they make, so you go on making yourselves miserable over toys. It’s what you do, and I get that. When I see you post inaccurate garbage, though, I’m going to correct you. It’s what I do.

  • http://www.theterrordrome.com WildWeasel

    Share Patrol member WildWeasel here. Hello everyone.

    So IDW’s G.I. Joe trades have been selling 1600-1700, but I think something that is being overlooked is the fact that up until what volume 6, the series had already been collected once and most fans weren’t buying the new reprints. Now if we are to look at volume 6, sales were over 1800. Not great, but better. Volume 7 was almost 1700. Again not great. But I think not many people weren’t aware that these were all new, never collected before. Also I don’t think the comic series is as big with fans as the cartoon was. Hell I was a fan of both and collected the Marvel run, but when I re-read these books, some of them are damn hokey.

    I still think IDW is doing a descent job with G.I. Joe though. G.I. Joe has been selling 13,000-14,000 books consistantly in the past few months and Origins and the COBRA mini-series have been doing almost just as many in sales. One of my LCS (not sure about the others) orders 20-30 copies of each book and consistently sells out each month on the main books (G.I. Joe, Origins & COBRA — Op HISS isn’t doing as well, same with the Snake Eyes mini). In the end, I think more people are buying the monthly issues of the G.I. Joe titles than the trades; where with other types of series (e.g. X-Men, Batman, Iron, Civil War,etc) you find people waiting for the trades.

    I do agree to extent that Hasbro isn’t quite sure what to do with G.I. Joe. Because I know this for a fact form conversations I’ve had with certain individuals. They are having a hard time trying to market it so that it can be something on a global level and not just North American and handful of other countries that don’t dislike the U.S., mainly our military forces. So they are trying to find that right blend that will catch on. It is sad that they seemed to distant themselves from stuff like RoC instead of trying steer a new course with it. I hope they are successful with Renegades, because I know that Pursuit of Cobra would have proven successful at retail and could have stood to last longer than four waves of single carded figures. But would it have been successful with the kids? Probably not as likely as Renegades stands to be. And that is where I’m more accepting of this switchover. We need some future generations to get interested in G.I. Joe and Hasbro knows this, because sooner or later us grown men will grow tired of our favorite plastic soldiers and move on.

  • Black

    What drives someone to post such long responses? 3/4 of some of the responses didn’t even make sense and makes the poster look like a complete idiot.

    If it makes you feel special and so knowledgeable… congrats!!

  • http://www.compulsivecollector.com/ Compulsive Collector

    “I hope they are successful with Renegades, because I know that Pursuit of Cobra would have proven successful at retail and could have stood to last longer than four waves of single carded figures. But would it have been successful with the kids? Probably not as likely as Renegades stands to be. And that is where I’m more accepting of this switchover. We need some future generations to get interested in G.I. Joe and Hasbro knows this, because sooner or later us grown men will grow tired of our favorite plastic soldiers and move on.”
    If nothing else, my attempts to thwart mortality may eventually fail. :-)

    But in all seriousness, this is right on the money. The best thing that can happen for G.I. JOE is for it to be a hit with kids again. There just aren’t enough of us adult collectors to get as much from the lines as we want, and things like Firebats in TJ Maxx and Attack on Cobra Island sets at Ross make that all too clear. The Rise Of Cobra sparked interest, and an animated series is exactly what the property needs right now. I’d love to know the number of homes in which The Hub will be available at its debut.

  • Hawkwinter

    Ok, this is getting way out of hand.

    What I really want to know Compulsive Collector is why you felt so strongly to post such an aggressive response to my original post? I pointed out things that annoy, frustrate and worry me. If you disagree, cool, lots of people do, but right of the bat you start taking shots at me with 12-year old taunts like “do you live in an impoversihed area, where many people are unemployed?” in response to my saying IDW GIJoe was selling so badly comic shops in the area only got them on a pre-order fashion. You seemed to think that could only happen if everyone was poor here (which is the EXACT opposite, the economic crisis gave us a huge boom) and I proved my point about bad sales with the stats I posted and anyone can look up at Icv2.com.

    I’ve been with this hobby since 1982 (with a small hiatus in my teenage years), I spend a lot of money on Hasbro products and GIJoe is part of that. Why you keep grouping me into some Hasbro-hater group is beyond me.

    Your response to WildWeasels post was civil and for once made sense and I agree with it too. Why is it so hard for you to make your point without talking down to everyone who doesn’t see things your way? And yeah, I got sucked into this and you definately have a great talent of bringing everyone down to the lowest form of communication, but that’s not really something you should pride yourself on. And I’m not thrilled I lost my temper over this pointless debate. But there it is.

    This site generally holds intelligent converstaion with people providing different points of view, coming in and saying we’re morons because we “feel” differently than you is just ignorant.

    Black, you’re right, these posts are getting ludicrous, and I apologize for that. I made my point, take it or leave it.

  • Silent Master

    “I know there’s no convincing either of you that Hasbro isn’t out to hurt your little feelings with every decision they make, so you go on making yourselves miserable over toys. It’s what you do, and I get that. When I see you post inaccurate garbage, though, I’m going to correct you. It’s what I do.” — Compulsive

    Well, “Slick”, before you go trying to “correct” anyone else, you should worry about your own inaccuracies, and acknowledge the facts rather than just attempt to pass your own ill-informed waffling off as someone else’s mistake. What you “do” is just run around trying to seem self-important and create issues because you can’t accept that you don’t really know as much as you want people to believe you do. You’re incredibly pompous in that regard, but you are completely deluded as far as anything else goes. You aren’t correcting anyone, you’re just demonstrating your own ignorance.

    As for Hasbro “hurting anyone’s feelings” with their every decision, maybe you have your own little issues with them, and this is just your way of trying to bully people around, while making yourself feel all important and big. It won’t work with me, “slick”, and if you think I’m even the slightest bit intimitated by you or anyone else, you are very mistaken. I have NO expectation that ANYTHING Hasbro decides to do is to make me happy or not, therefore, why would it matter if Hasbro were out to hurt my feelings or anyone else’s? They couldn’t give a hearty duece about you either, Compulsive, so you can step on off of that pedestal you’ve placed yourself on. I don’t think anyone here could care any less about what your real job is or isn’t, but one thing is for sure, you are no better than anyone else on this site and you’d be well served to understand this. Furthermore, I’m not at all miserable over any toy that has been or ever will be released. My life doesn’t revolve around Hasbro or anything they produce. This is, and always has been a simple hobby, for me. Just because I happen to disagree with some people on certain things, and you on most everything, and still agree with them on others, doesn’t mean that my life revolves around my hobby.

    Something else you need to understand is that everything isn’t a conspiracy, at least not for me anyway, or did that massive intellect miss that point earlier when it was posted? I guess you missed it Sherlock. I see you continually accusing myself, as well as other people of thinking everything is a conspiracy because we don’t paint Hasbro with glowing praise over everything they do, yet, I have not seen you offer any solid FACTS to either PROVE your points nor to disprove anyone else’s. None whatsoever. What I have seen is you popping up and telling everyone who does not agree with you, that they have nothing to back this or that up, even when they offer facts, which you ever so conveniently ignore. Why is that? Can’t face them? Can’t dispute them? Can’t accept them? Or are you too preoccupied with insulting other posters that you can’t be bothered by such things as facts.

    I’ve seen you write a lot of fiction on here, trying to insult a lot of people because you don’t have any real arguments or points to make, in order to validate your own opinions, which are just that, OPINIONS, not FACTS. I’ve seen you on here making your snide little comments, indicating that I was right about you though. I was definitely right that you think you are better than anyone else. You think you are more intelligent. You THINK you know about a lot of things that you really have no idea about. See, you’ve done it right here. When it seems that someone may have pointed out what you’re all about, or made it seem that you aren’t as all-knowing as you’d like the general public to think you are, you get right back in there and try to take your cheap shots and cast aspersions onto others so that you seem like the smart one and not the one who is talking smack straight out of his rectal cavity, in a vain attempt not to be seen as a pompous, yet clueless, jerk.

    You even attacked my own intellect, stating that I could “barely form a coherent sentence on my own”, but that’s fine. If you feel that you need to attack me to make yourself feel bigger and better, then go for it. I can handle it, “slick”. Better than you have tried and found that I’m not beyond taking anything they can dish out, so if you want to go slamming people and insulting them, bring it on, I can take better than what you have to give, and come out smiling, because I can see you for what you are beyond the other side of those words. Your biggest fear is that everyone will see through your great facade and not take you seriously. Don’t worry about all that, no one on here takes you seriously anyway, lol. I surely don’t take you very seriously at all, and in fact, am having quite a good laugh at all of this nonsense you keep going on about, with your personal attacks aginst me and those whom you seem to think “hate Hasbro”. (Also, a laxative here and there may not hurt you either, since you seem a little uptight.)

    Since you obviously have a hard time following the English language, I’ll say it again, just for you: I do not and never have said that I “hate Hasbro”, “slick”. (I think you must like to use this name a lot, so I thought I’d give you a taste of just how cool you sound, when it comes from you. Enjoy.) I have stated numerous times that Hasbro doesn’t always make the best choices with the directions they go on certain things, and that maybe I don’t agree with a lot of it often, but never that I hated them for anything. YOU said that I did because I don’t piant a rosey little picture of them like you want everyone to do, it seems.

    To be fair, I like a good bit of what they do and I dislike a significant portion as well. I’ll reiterate again, that I’m no conspiracy nut, but I do know a lot about how and why certain things are done and that doesn’t make me a conspirator in any shape or form. If you don’t care to see these things in front of you, that’s your deal, but you don’t need to go casting aspersions onto me as a person because you can’t accept certain facts as facts. So, just because I’m not a little lemming like others out there are, and I don’t quietly follow along like a good little drone, and I don’t agree with everything Hasbro or IDW or whomever says that I should agree with, that does NOT make me a hater or a conspiator against them. All it means is that I know how to think for myself, and I don’t need egotistical prats to try and “correct” me into believing all the hype. Obviously you’ve been immersed in it for so long that you believe your own hype though, so good for you.

    “I’m the one who’s confused, but you believe I have to personally want something for it to be successful? You really are a hoot. I don’t watch American Idol, I didn’t see Avatar, and I don’t own an iPhone. Does that mean those things are not successful?” –Compulsive

    Yes, I understand that you’re very confused, because you change your story and so-called facts continuously with every new post. I never said one word to you about “believeing that you have to personally want something for it to be successful”. You really are reaching to try and squeeze in more insults, to the point of repeatedly putting words into my mouth, which I never said or even insinuated. That is pretty pathetic, and you should really focus on drinking your coffee and being pretentious, if that is the case, “slick”. Don’t go feeling all special because you didn’t see Avatar, or watch American Idol or own an iPhone, neither did, nor do, I. I also would never say they weren’t successful just because I have no interest in those things necessarily.

    Thing is though, that once AGAIN, you’ve backtracked on your earlier statements about RoC being so successful, and compared to any ONE of the things you mentioned, RoC wasn’t successful by any of those standards. I’ll even say that ONCE AGAIN, the failure or success of RoC is and was based SOLELY on Hasbro’s projected expectations of what they were wanting RoC to do with its sales performance. Yes, it sold a lot of toys and made a lot of money, BUT as I have said before, BASED on those projections, it failed, whereas Avatar, American Idol and the iPhone did not fail to meet expectations.

    Sure, RoC “succeeded” in making money, I’ve said that too, but NOT even close to its projected estimates, this means that it was NOT the success they were hoping for, and therefore NOT the success that you seem to have imbedded in your brain and continue claiming it to be. No one is arguing the fact that it managed to make money and sell tons of toys, what we are saying is that it didn’t make nearly as much as Hasbro wanted it to and they didn’t sell nearly as many toys as they’d hoped in the bargain. If you’re so smart, then this should be extremely simple for you to grasp.

    I notice that you have barely even brought up RoC in this last post, because you’ve been too busy hurling insults and condescending to the responses to your asinine posts from earlier. Or maybe you are getting the picture that RoC isn’t the big success that you seem to want everyone to believe it was, or just can’t back it up with hard facts beyond it made X amount of money and had the best toy sales for the line in recent years? Big deal, lots of movies manage that and most are still better than RoC. Either way, in almost every post of yours up til now, that I’ve seen, you mention how big a success it was and want to argue that point incessantly. So, how does liking or wanting or even watching it, have anything to do with it’s success or failure at all? All of the things you mentioned ARE successful, whether or not you had anything to do with them or not. The difference between those things and RoC is that RoC was expected to do much, MUCH better with earned income, and it simply did NOT perform up to those standards or specs, and therefore, was NOT the big success that you believe it to be. Accept it and move on with your life.

    You accuse me of being upset (to paraphrase) because Hasbro might make a decision to hurt my feelings, regarding some toys or a cartoon or whatever, but you continue to dwell on RoC and actively argue about how successful it was with people who don’t even care how successful it was or not. Enough is enough. If you love it that much, go get a room and watch it as much as you like. I don’t mind at all.

    However, you should know that just because you go watch it half a million times on dvd, that WON’T make it any more successful out in the real world. You seem far more upset that people are willing to point out what they don’t like, rather than just running around like Hasbro is nothing but roses and sunshine. You are not living in the real world, because the reality is that Hasbro puts out stuff or does things that fans don’t care for and many of us are vocal and openly speak our opinions on it, whether it does any real good or not. The thing is, I’d rather be heard and chance that Hasbro listen and on occassion fix something, rather than pretend all is well in compulsive land and just take what they give us with absolutely no type of input at all.

    So, I hated RoC and the toyline. So what do you care? I certainly don’t care that lots of people did like it, including you. That’s for them to decide, but I don’t call them names for likeing something that I didn’t care for at all, nor do I hate Hasbro because of it. RoC failed, PoC seems to have a pretty positive following so far and I am looking forward to getting most of that line. Do I like everything? No. I don’t like the Mechs at all, but some do, and that’s fine. I’ll get the stuff I like and they can get what they like and then we can post our praise or complaints about what we got, and see what the results are for the next go around. You call me a hater, but you’re the one doing the hating on me, just because I see Hasbro as it is, flaws and all, whereas you choose not to acknowledge the flaws and sing your happy little tune.

    That’s okay too, just make sure when you sing it, that you are prepared for some backlash from those who don’t mind pointing out that Hasbro, IDW, etc., are far from perfect with all that they do. Enjoy what you like, but let me do the same, and if I want to complain about something, it’s my perogative to do so, just as it is my perogative to let someone know that I liked something, if I so choose.

    “And you wonder why you aren’t taken seriously…” –Compulsive

    Well, no, I actually never wondered about this, because frankly I couldn’t care less. The fact that you chose to make this statement on my behalf just further illustrates that you will do whatever it takes to try and put someone down in an attempt to try and make yourself look superior. Let me clear one thing up for you right away. You may have yourself convinced that you are somehow “superior”, but you are not, and you may need to look into therapy before you begin referring to yourself in third person, so you can deflate that ego and start acting like a human being again. I understand that you have to take yourself so seriously, because no one else really will, but do not deflect your shortcomings onto me. I’m perfectly fine if no one takes me too seriously, that’s how it should be, because a lot of what I say about Hasbro, IDW and GI Joe on here is not only because it’s my opinion, but also to get a laugh on occassion. Laugh at me if you like, if you do, all it means is that I’m doing just what I intended to do, while you’ve been sabotaging me with your crappy attitude and smart@$$ little comments here and there.

    One final note, “slick” (since you love this one so much), you have no idea what I have to offer or teach, and you are not “qualified” to make that assessment based on a few meager posts about the importance or unimportance of some little plastic men. You don’t agree with me, that’s fine. I assure you, I won’t lose any sleep over that or what you may think of me, but I can assure you, that aside from reading these posts and responding to a few, I definitely won’t be thinking of you, nor your arrogant, pompous, egotistical and generally boorish attitude towards myself and anyone else on here who may not agree with you or anything you have to say.

    You may not like what I have to say, but that doesn’t mean you can determine whether or not you could learn something from me, because you have no idea what type of knowledge I have, but I’m just as happy if you don’t. I’m also not afraid to learn, whether it be from someone more knowledgable or not. I know grandparents who have learned things from their grandchildren, so do not equate intelligence with wisdom or the ability to integrate either or both with everyday knowledge and skills, nor the person it may come from.

    For now though, I’ll kindly ask that you keep your comments regarding my qualifications and knowledge to yourself, because you don’t have any business making such statements to me, nor assessing my particular knowledge pool, because I never said one word to you about learning anything from me personally. So, there was no mistake from me on that point. The mistake was you opening your mouth and assuming that I ever intended for you to learn anything, much less from me, slick. All I said was that you could learn something from someone else along the way if you weren’t so conceited, CC. (Next time though, try and stay on the topics of discussion and try to offer some facts to back up this so-called knowledge you claim to have.)

    This will be the last post directed in any way toward, “Mr. Instigator” and his snyde remarks, regardless of what he posts beyond this. Unless it is civil and intelligently posed, as the response to Wild Weasel’s was, in which case that is acceptable and a normal discussion may ensue. Hawkwinter has the right idea though, and letting it get so far out of place from the initial comments wasn’t the best way to go. Still, some good information was learned amidst all of the insults and condescension, regarding actual numbers for the IDW/DDP comics. I’ve said my peice and that’s where I’m leaving it at this point. Anyone can take it or leave it, I’m fine whichever way, as I’ve gotten a few laughs out of this entire discussion, so that’s a bonus on its own.

    Black, hopefully you’ll have some much shorter posts to read after this one, and apologies for you having to read so much information, lol. ;)

  • http://www.compulsivecollector.com/ Compulsive Collector

    “If you disagree, cool, lots of people do, but right of the bat you start taking shots at me with 12-year old taunts like “do you live in an impoversihed area, where many people are unemployed?” in response to my saying IDW GIJoe was selling so badly comic shops in the area only got them on a pre-order fashion.”
    Why would you take that as a taunt? I don’t make a habit of calling people, “poor,” as an insult. It was an honest question, and considering current economic conditions in so many parts of the country, a perfectly legitimate one. My LCS can’t keep the titles in stock, so I was trying to find a reason for the stark contrast.

    “…I proved my point about bad sales with the stats I posted and anyone can look up at Icv2.com”
    No, no. You proved that the sales are lower now than they were when the title first launched (which tends to happen with many comic titles), not that the sales are, “bad.”

    “And I’m not thrilled I lost my temper over this pointless debate.”
    This was never a debate.

    “This site generally holds intelligent converstaion with people providing different points of view, coming in and saying we’re morons because we “feel” differently than you is just ignorant.”
    Except that I said no such thing. I was responding to your commentary and talking specifically about your attitude toward a hobby. I didn’t call you a, “moron.” In fact, here’s a recap:

    You were complaining about only being able to find core characters; I explained that strategy. You complained that Pursuit Of Cobra already has a known expiration date; I attempted to put that into perspective and asked why it matters. You insisted that continuity reboots demonstrate a lack of confidence; I provided examples to counter that thinking. You made two unfounded assumptions about the new animated series, “they are throwing together a quick cartoon,” and that it was in response to fan reaction to Resolute. I corrected these inaccurate observations. You said the delay between the new animated series, “equates to a serious lack of confidence.” I provided the facts about producing a cartoon which illustrate that Hasbro is showing a tremendous amount of confidence in the property. You don’t invest the kind of money required to get children’s animation on television if you don’t believe in the brand.

    Not only did I not call you a moron, but I didn’t call you anything at all (not even an, “idiot”). My focus was on all the ways Hasbro mismanages G.I. JOE, how everything they do is wrong, how they have abandoned all hope for G.I. JOE, and how, “the fans,” know better than the professionals. The first post, one you described as something, “that actually sound(s) like I could of written,” stated, “Hasbro are IDIOTS.” And how do you react when someone with a positive outlook contributes a comment? You go with the usual attempt at being cute and sarcastic. Even when you offer praise, as you did with the selection in Pursuit Of Cobra, you immediately follow it with a complain about the shelf life (or peg life, I suppose) of the line. Have you considered the possibility, Hawkwinter, that all the negativity you express is the reason for the way you’re perceived?

    And honestly, was all of the not-so-Silent Master’s prattling on about not being, “intimidated,” and trying to make a case for, “intelligence,” necessary? The lady doth protest too much, methinks.